Trulioo CEO Says Leadership Today Is About Trust, Data and Decision Making

Narrator: 0:06

This is What's Next in Payments, a PYMNTS Podcast. Forward-looking insights from industry leaders on the trends and technologies reshaping payments and fintech. In this episode, Trulioo CEO Vicky Bindra says leadership in the AI age is about redefining trust, data, and decision making when machines move faster than markets.

Vicky Bindra: 0:32

How do we really establish the identity between the consumer and the agent and ensure that the transaction goes well? And then we use generative AI across our business to really look at either data science or models or verification of problems.

John Gaffney: 0:54

Hi everyone, welcome to PYMNTS TV. Welcome to What's Next in Payments. This is my favorite topic so far this year for What's Next in Payments because we've had such a great response from great CEOs, including the one that we're about to interview today. Because if last year was the year of the CFO, this is the year of the CEO. It's at that level that decisions on liquidity, MA, regulatory compliance, and short-term and long-term planning are being taken. So where are CEOs in terms of where they want to be in the connected economy? What are the tough decisions that need to be considered in the C-suite? And what will it take to make those decisions pay out? That's what we're going to talk about. And today we're going to talk about it with Vicky Bindra, who is the CEO of Trulioo. Trulioo is the world's identity platform, trusted by leading companies for their verification and fraud prevention needs. Vicky, welcome.

Vicky Bindra: 1:48

Thank you so much, John. Lovely to be here and lovely to discuss such an important topic.

John Gaffney: 1:54

Yeah, and and and lovely to have you uh helping helping us out with it. So let's get right into it, Vicky. Um let's we're we're coming, I guess, toward the end of 2025. What did you see as the defining challenge or opportunity for CEOs this year? Yeah, that's a big statement.

Vicky Bindra: 2:14

But let me try to answer that question, right? So uh I would say, listen, the defining challenge in my mind has been more on reviewing your business model and where it goes in light of AI. And let me put some context into that, right? So let's say you had a business that was a SaaS platform, that was an orchestration platform, that changes dramatically. And when I say AI, it's three parts to AI. Is it machine learning, is it agents, or is it generative AI? And they're sort of connected, but people talk of them as very different blocks. And your ability to be either influenced, supported, or disintermediated by any of these technologies is what's I think causing the biggest um either concern or question or opportunity for businesses. And I feel uh that that is something that companies, CEOs, uh, engineers are all grappling with through 2025 and part of 2026.

John Gaffney: 3:17

So, Vicky, let me ask you this. How does AI play in the truly you framework? And how do you get your head around this amazing challenge that we have in front of us?

Vicky Bindra: 3:26

Yeah, listen, it is it is a challenge. We obviously look at it as an opportunity around all of those pieces, right? So if you look at our risk models and how we look at identity and we can associate, for example, people with companies and whether they're good or bad, we use a lot of deep machine learning to be able to run models, to be able to identify either anomalies or challenges with particular transactions or people. I think then as you look at agents, we are right now at the forefront of thinking through KYA or know your agent and how do we really establish the identity between the consumer and the agent and show that the transaction goes well. And then we use generative AI across our business to really look at either data science or models or verification of problems. So we're grappling with all of those as opportunities so that we remain the trusted infrastructure for our customers and for the industry, but it is it is how we evolve with that and we make sure we're staying ahead of the needs of the customers that is always something that keeps me awake.

John Gaffney: 4:35

All right, thank you. That was a great, a great answer. Um, so what are some of the hard decisions currently on your desk? I mean, I don't I don't expect you to tell me to tell me anything as school, but you know, what are some of the decisions that I'll share with you, and and you know, you ask a very it's it's a delicate and yet a very important question.

Vicky Bindra: 4:55

Um you know, we you start out in this, and I started a few months ago, let's say about nine months ago, and really started thinking about how do you think of our contiguous services that we would offer. And it almost, you know, in my mind, it started with identity after identity. One needs to do authentication so that each time you come on the website, I recognize it's John. After that, I do tokenization. So I can tokenize your bank account to ensure that I can go to your bank account and pull out your funds, and finally I do transaction fraud. It was all sequential linear in terms of thinking on you know how one should expand the model, get ready for the next five years and create true as as a company that would that could stand on its own with pride uh as it stands today. But I think as with with the whole AI influence, I think our world is is is changing a little bit. Is that the right model? I don't know today. We are right now deeply thinking how far will agentic commerce play? Is that a goal by itself that becomes so big that that becomes the right thing to amorph to? So I think for us it is really taking what we do best, which is we have access to differential data sources, we are global, we can understand fraud and deepfakes very well, we understand credit verification, and how do we build a path for our customers that is really strong and differential? But it's it's a continuous challenge, John. And the best we are doing is keeping a little bit nimble and trying to have work with our design clients and work with it in a pathway that'll create success. But I don't think the answer is as clear.

John Gaffney: 6:38

Yes, I I agree with you. Agree with you. But and that was an honest answer. I appreciate it. So, Vicky, I used to work for a guy a hundred years ago named Schwarz Krieger, who used to tell me that the most important thing I had to do every day was balance short-term with long-term priorities. How I how do you do that in today's unpredictable environment?

Vicky Bindra: 7:00

Yeah, it's um, you know, many times the the the standard answer I was taught as I grew up in my career is, you know, think long-term and short-term sort of evolves from long-term. I'm not sure that's altogether as easy, John. So again, uh an interesting question, right? So I I think for us, the short term really is how do you define the problem sets with our customers? What are the pain points, and how do you solve them better than anybody else? So someone does not have an automated environment to basically look at onboarding, how do we make sure that they do that really well in an automated manner without manual intervention, or someone's having a problem with deep fakes or with fraud, how do we help them overcome that or remove false positives? That's the short-term answer where pure technology and ability for us to work closely with our customers makes sense and we do it. I think a longer term we have to evolve to a place where while the we want to be the trusted infrastructure for these companies, our path is not as clear from short-term to long-term as one thought three years ago, right? Is that a mix of agentic commerce and partnering with three companies, which we thought we could build alone because technology will get so complicated, it'll be hard to do everything on your own. Will scale really matter in the new world and therefore you need to acquire or not? And those are some of the challenges we are working through. So I I'd be a remiss if I told you we have a clear sense of how we are proceeding. But I think a focus is really, when I say short term, the next 18 months, how do we stay ahead? But then start carving out the differentials that get us to the best trusted infrastructure over the next three to five years.

John Gaffney: 8:48

But what always shines through in any conversation I've had with you and comes through in Trullius framework is a focus on the customer. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Vicky Bindra: 8:57

Yeah, I think I listen, we we start and end with the customer, right? In many ways. One is really understanding where they play in the ecosystem. So if I'm an acquirer and I'm acquiring the ecosystem, it has responsibility both for proper transactions, but also ensuring that the merchants are safeguarded with some sort of risks and losses, right? So we we try and play the role of our customers internally so that we can understand it it carefully. That is one. I think the second is also we feel we're only as good as our customers. So tomorrow, if our customers in the industry are not the best and they don't have the lowest loss rates or the lowest false positives, our endorsement in the industry stops. So uh it's almost a necessity as much as passion in the company. So so for us, um, and we we we sort of you know go with everything just with with sort of you know the case. So know your business, know your consumer, know your agent, know your employee. And part of that is so that it starts seeming like we are behaving like the customer, not as a partner or a supplier to the customer. So sorry for the long answer, but but we feel quite quite like that seat in the in the customer's chair is is is something we take quite seriously in the company.

John Gaffney: 10:09

I love that answer. So, you know, another thing that always comes through in a conversation with you and and and just from following Truly, you guys are part of an ecosystem. You don't get it doesn't like you you don't see yourself as off to the side just doing identity. Um what is is that is that by design, and how do you see your company in this ecosystem of a smart economy and where it's like to be a year from now?

Vicky Bindra: 10:33

Yeah, listen, for us it is how do you become an effective part of the customer's journey, right? So, so far, for a long time, our customer's journey was all about onboarding. How do you help onboarding? It started with identity. So if you think about the three problems customers face while onboarding, hey, have I identified John correctly? Is there any fraud signal with John that I should be careful about? And third is is he or she creditworthy? Right? So, what we're trying to answer is all three questions for the customer and to be a part of their onboarding journey. But now the world changes. You think about Agentic Commerce, where it's no longer at the time of onboarding, each time, John, you want to do a transaction with an agent, we have to verify that the agent you've secured is connected to your account and you are actually the person who's actually making the transaction. So our remit has now gone from onboarding to managing the customer in that life cycle of purchase. So I think for us, what's important is we look at a core strength of a trusted infrastructure around identifying people, looking at whether there is a fraudulent signal or not, and then understanding the credit worthiness, but then tying it into the customer's journey in a meaningful manner. Um, and for us, getting that data and the ability for the customer to do it is sort of our core magic.

John Gaffney: 11:59

Vicky, last question for you. You just mentioned data, and you've mentioned a couple other things that you need to make these decisions and make them pay out. Um is that true? And what are some of the things you feel like you need as a CEO to get things done?

Vicky Bindra: 12:14

Yes, I feel like for us, you know, you mentioned data, getting access and owning good data is key to our success. You know, you can talk about AI in different forms, but you can't replicate good data. So if we have the ability globally to get access andor own good data, which is our our our our sort of fundamental passion to do, we believe we have a path to play in creating uh an infrastructure for customers, right? So uh that becomes like the core. So while there are short-term and long-term, we never lose sight that good data is what defines us, good data is what's going to keep us in the business, good data is what's going to differentiate us, good data is what's going to make us a great company.

John Gaffney: 12:57

That's gonna do it for this episode of What's Next in Payments. My name is John Gaffney. My guest has been Vicky Bindra. He's the CEO of Trulioo. Vicki, thanks for joining us. Thank you very much, John.

Narrator: 13:10

That's it for this episode of the PYMNTS Podcast: The Thinking Behind the Doing, Conversations with the Leaders Transforming Payments, Commerce, and the Digital Economy. Be sure to follow us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. You can also catch every episode on payments.com forward slash podcasts. Thanks for listening.